Let's Discuss Defining "Hidden"

Interesting topic. To add, we should I think distinguish "hidden" and "invisible". Though sometimes things can be on a little gray area in between, for instance a draggable that is in a very, very dark corner. For hidden I then agree with your examples.

A more important question (arguably) is, when does invisibility or hiddenness create bad or good gameplay?

Ball-spacer mechanism can for instance be totally hidden. You push a ball at one place, something else moves at another. Cause and effect clearly visible to the player. I then see no need to show the mechanism. Moreover, the visual design is likely better with the mechanism invisible. So stuff being invisible or very hidden can be part of good gameplay, so long as the player can see cause and effect, and little to no guessing is involved.

Hiddenness is more difficult. For one thing, some players may see something quickly, while others just keep overlooking it. So long as the logic in the level would force a player to the thought "there must be something else" I think it can be accepted in good gameplay. However, it should be visible to a reasonable extent. As a creator, you have a massive bias here, so for your own idea you should probably create something that looks quite apparent.

As an example I'd like to show this from The Mole. At the start, B can basically go nowhere but in the water. Then the player should find the passage under the bridge. I've added a red brick block and two rails there. I thought it was quite clear, but some failed to see it. So, anything more hidden than this is probably only adding difficulty by frustration, rather than by fun gameplay for the player.



So concluding:

• Invisibility is ok when cause and effect can be seen/derived.
• Hiddenness can be ok but should be used with care. Logic of the level should force a player to start looking, and account for the creator bias and differences between player (i.e. make it quite visible to yourself).

 

I have two levels I've held back due to the "hiddenness"of the mechanisms. (Click for full size.)


This one has a mechanism which is only revealed when a visible feature is engaged.


This one requires climbing the steps, and then returning to the space where b originally stood after falling.

Both seem too frustrating, so I never submitted them.

 

So Don', do you think the hidden win block was frustrating for players in Temple Trouble? I'm interested to know what you think. Thanks!

 

Good! The last thing i want to do is frustrate players.

 

I know I'm a bit late to this party, but i quite enjoyed @explorer's two challenges above. I think the key is that as long as it's made clear that there is something hidden, then such a puzzle could be very enjoyable. But without any hint of what to expect, it would be too frustrating.