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Bot Paths A question about draggables & sliders

Discussion in 'Game Behaviours' started by D.S.Masters, Oct 22, 2016.

  1. D.S.Masters

    D.S.Masters Sir Not-Appearing-In-This-Film

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    Okay, something I've noticed: you have a single draggable block attached to a slider which can be moved along a rail. Sometimes B is able to stand on the slider, other times he can't - an example is "Beyond the wall" by @davidkvis99 : the second draggable in the level is one that B can only stand on the draggable and not the slider, which is good, because you could skip the rest of the level that way. But if you move that draggable just 1 space away so that the slider isn't touching anything but the rail (and draggable, obviously), then you can tap B on to the slider and return it to its original position for the win. Is there any particular configuration that prevents B from getting on a slider, or is it certain materials that the slider is touching that prevent B from getting on it?
     
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  2. nGord

    nGord Standby Administrator, Retired Moderator Staff Member

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    @D.S.Masters - Short answer: it depends on the location of the slider in respect to its placement during the design of the level.

    From upcoming documentation:

    “No Step Slider”

    Normally a bot (both B and R) is able to step on a horizontal slider. However if you tap on the slider at its default (starting) position, an X would appear, showing that he actually can't step onto it. But if you move the slider and try again, the bot would now happily step onto it.
    In other words, its a "feature." :) Does that answer your question?
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2016
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  3. D.S.Masters

    D.S.Masters Sir Not-Appearing-In-This-Film

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    Features... geez. Does anyone know why this behavior occurs, or is it something that just comes with the territory? Because it doesn't seem clean across the boards - I've seen plenty of levels where B *can* get on the slider in its original position, even if it's at the end of the rail against something.

    One other thing I noticed about sliders that I guess is a 'feature' - if you have a slider with nothing attached to it, one that moves by itself along a rail, if you tap on it and B misses, B will end up standing on the rail... and from there you can tap him on to any adjacent surface, even if he shouldn't be able to get there without following the proper patn.
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2016
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  4. nGord

    nGord Standby Administrator, Retired Moderator Staff Member

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    It's possible that I have it wrong. Can you please point out some conflicting results? It would be good to get to the bottom of this.

    Thanks for sharing!
     
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  5. D.S.Masters

    D.S.Masters Sir Not-Appearing-In-This-Film

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    It looks like I was mistaken - I checked various levels that I have, and you cannot get on a slider (attached to a draggable) in its original position; you can only get on one when it's been moved. Odd.
     
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  6. nGord

    nGord Standby Administrator, Retired Moderator Staff Member

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    I might need an example to understand. But from what you described, B technically could get to the "adjacent surface" before: when the slider was in the position en route to this "adjacent surface." Before falling in the place of the slider, the slider (it seems) would have made a "proper path" to the "adjacent surface." No?
     
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  7. D.S.Masters

    D.S.Masters Sir Not-Appearing-In-This-Film

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    Yes - the slider forms part of the path. But as I said, if B misses the slider and ends up on the rail, he really shouldn't be able to go anywhere, but because of a 'feature' of the game he can. He can't, as far as I know, get on a rail in any other way.
     
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  8. nGord

    nGord Standby Administrator, Retired Moderator Staff Member

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    Thank you for explaining further. So what is going on in this example is part of the "autopilot" routine. Just like if you send B to a spot and then drag a draggable of no more than a single-block height to the spot before he gets there, B will climb up onto the draggable.

    In this case you simply made him fall instead of climb.

    As far as the software is concerned, B is where he is supposed to be - because you sent him to a legitimate spot. Hence B should be able to continue onto any further legitimate spot.

    Again, from upcoming documentation:
    Autopilot (AKA "Path Completion”) Exploits

    So we know that if a spot that B can reach in a level is tapped, B will immediately walk to that spot. But what happens if the path changes during his traverse? It all depends, and how it depends has spawned many new exploits.

    Essentially what is going on is that when a spot is tapped, the game runs a calculation. First it calculates if the spot is reachable, and if not, it displays a red X on the spot. If it is reachable, not only does the game display a bubble on the spot, it calculates how many steps and in which direction B will need to make in order to reach the spot. In other words, B is assigned a path and then set on autopilot to complete the path. Here are some variants of how this knowledge has been exploited:

    In other words, the game software does not continuously re-calculate all the rules of acceptable locations/situations or not. It simply makes one calculation after you tap a spot. If it is against the rules then an 'X' will appear. Otherwise B will go as instructed and the physics engine will adapt B's movement as the environment changes. Once complete, the process can be repeated.

    It's actually a good thing that B can continue on, even if he ends up in an otherwise illegal spot. If not, play would have to be restarted each time.
     
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