Organization How would you like our levels to be categorized?

The definition of "puzzle" only fits those that do not fit in any other more specific category. This puzzle is not purely a ball puzzle, it is not purely a path, etc. but it is a puzzle that requires observation before embarking on the situation. It also requires that you set up a few things first before you move, which puts it in the sequential movement subcategory

 

I really, really, truly, do not like the difficulty ratings as the main criteria.
It is not a forward-thinking method for the million-plus app owners, or those that discover it next year and beyond.

Can you imagine 10,000 levels sorted into only four groups?
Pages and pages upon pages of wading through so many levels of a single difficulty rating is tedious at best.
Levels will be missed because people are not going to want to go through 500 pages.
And because new levels are being added all the time, they will easily lose track of what page they were on because that page number is going to change.

Also, difficulty rating is subjective, and based solely on the perception of the person playing the level.
(or in the mind of the creator who has decided that what he thinks is easy, turns out to be hard-core insane to someone else)

Use me as an example. How many times have you seen me run across a level that everyone else thinks is easy, and I think it's impossible to solve? Sometimes there are other people who agree with me, that this easy level just isn't easy at all.

I have also found "difficult" levels that I thought were a piece a cake, and I got through it in record time. But other people thought it was a real pain in the you know where.

Were those easy or difficult?
Depends on who you talk to…
Which makes the sorting by difficulty, totally subjective.

But a maze is always a maze,
and a ball game is always a ball game,
and a puzzle box is always a puzzle box,
and a balancing table/stage is always a balancing level,
and a 15 puzzle is a sliding modular level.

People can all agree on those images....
because....
Categories are Objective.

 

A ballgame combined into a maze still has a focus ...of one or the other...
if it is not a pure ball game, then it fits in the maze category.

A level that is both precision and a puzzle, fits under precision… Because that is a more specific description, than is "puzzle"

If the level has a bug, that's simply noted in a tag. The level itself has a focus that has nothing to do with the bug… Unless the bug itself is being showcased to other creators, such as in an unsolvable level.

It's actually a very clean system, like the dichotomous key.
"Does level contain element X?"
… If no, then it doesn't belong in category A
....if yes, then it MAY belong in category A, but only if it has element Y
....if yes, and it has element Y, then it belongs in category A
... If yes, and it does not have element Y, then it belongs in category B, C, or D, depending on if it also contains element Z and/or Q

Yes, it is a complex system but it is also very flexible, and makes things easy to find, and it splits 10,000 levels onto 8 to 10 major categories with perhaps up to 8 subcategories each.

We've now put 10,000 levels on 80 categorical pages instead of just 4 or 5 pages of difficulty ratings.

Some of those pages will have a heck of a lot of levels, because they're easy to create, and theyre common…, while others may only have 10 to 100 pages. This makes categories much more manageable for the players searching for new levels...they can actually see the light at the end of the tunnel when there are fewer pages to wade through in a given category.

 

Not true at all. You've got the definitions, subcategories, and the focus all scrambled up, like eggs.

Without seeing the level you are trying to describe, your description makes no sense what so ever.

If there's a ball toss at the end, then that's likely not its focus. That's simply a tag for ball, and MAYBE precision . If it truly is a puzzle, with no other focus that is more specific then "puzzle", then it goes in the puzzle category, with a subcategory depending on what type of thought puzzle it is. ( note that if it involves racing against time, it doesn't come under puzzle it comes under Agility, if there are a lot of zappers, it would be a Dodger)

A level that is both precision and a puzzle, fits under precision IF precision is the main FOCUS of the puzzle. "Precision" is a more specific term, for a more specific situation, then is "puzzle". However trying to discuss situations like this without seeing a level that relates to what you are trying to describe is an exercise in futility.

There's no contradiction at all… You just don't understand the system, which is why you're fighting it because you think difficulty ratings would be a lot easier than trying to follow a complex classification system.

 

There's nothing to cover up… I simply clarified what you apparently misunderstood because I wasn't clear enough the first time through, thinking you'd "get it" without me having to spell it out letter by letter. Forgive me for giving you the benefit of the doubt. Geez...get over it and stop this nitpicking!

There is no contradiction on your example level
none.
It is a puzzle focus with sequential movement.
There is no other FOCUS.
None.

It does not fit under Dodgers because that's not the FOCUS.
Again you are getting the descriptions confused with FOCUS.
This level does not focus on dodging zappers, that is only a minor part. It was tagged for zappers, but the zappers are not the focus of the level.

 

What categorization options does this forum engine support?

• Tags
• Albums
  • Moderator vetted albums
    
  • Can users potentially create their albums of levels that they like or follow a certain style? (i.e. without added duplicate levels to the database)
• Other?

 

How if we make a new category that hold a level that had multiple focus ?

 

The Author should choose d Focus... but also state the percentage of other categories that is mixed into it (if he/she thinks its a great factor in completing d level).... then let d moderators or viewer check it....(cannot be uploaded if focus is not specified) through suggestion function attached with d reason... but d author will have d major decision in choosing its focus since he/she is d One created it.... SubCategories are size and Difficulty... size is categorized by d moderators... n d difficulty is decided by the viewers... But initialized by d author... Now The Problem is what are the major categories...? haha.... Im still thinking about it... Most of my Levels' Focus is hidden KeyMove... what category should it be place..?

 

If you look back into my previous posts, we already discussed focus before as the main method for determining the top level category to begin with. Also stated in my past messages, I have mentioned that the definitions are tentative, rudimentary and still need work, so to be using them verbatim in your current argument is to tell me that you haven't read all my posts...or at least cannot remember them.

You tried to tell me there was no way to determine focus of a level. We argued about that.... And so you sent me this example level. So this idea of FOCUS isn't anything new. You just don't remember the discussion from yesterday.. That's how you determine the top level catagory, by the FOCUS of the level.

The answer to your "objective" way of telling what the focus is, is to simply KNOW what you are looking at. You know what a maze is. You know what a ball game looks like, You know what a path full of zappers looks like when it covers a board.

These things aren't arbitrary… You simply KNOW what you are looking at. And with practice, anyone can know, too... But you won't know HOW you know, and if someone asks you to explain how you know something, it's very likely you can't explain it. You simply KNOW...by experience, or by being able to deduce that this is similar to something else you've seen or heard before. (I used to be called "lightbulb "in grade school because the teacher would call on me, I'd give the right answer, and then I would be asked how I came up with that answer, and all I could say was "A lightbulb went off in my head and I just knew it".) I often cannot explain how I know something, I just do...And if you don't like that answer, i can't help you.

Let's say you see an animal in the street. And you KNOW it's either a cat or a dog. That's not arbitrary, that's experience, that's knowledge gained from years of being on the planet. You look closer, and you discover it is a small dog ( because you've known what a dog looks like all your life, and it certainly isn't moving like a cat)

Bingo! we now have our top level category…Dogs.
Subcategory? Probably a Chihuahua, sort of, Um, not quite, so it must be a mix that has some chihuahua in it. Bingo! We now have a "combination". Let's tag it as "white", "no collar", "male". None of that was arbitrary, it's simply using your brain to recognize things that you know, or are looking right at.

And it's no different with the levels.
When you're looking at one, you know what you're looking at. You may not be consciously aware of what you are looking at, but now that you need to bring your knowledge into the forefront of your mind, you become more aware of the fact that you've always known what kind of level it was, you just never had a name for it until now. And you never realized that you always knew what the focus of a level was, you just never gave it any conscious thought, until now.

Just like you've always known the difference between a dog and a cat. but you may not have known the breeds of either until now, when you remembered that a childhood friend had a Chihuahua, and this thing in the street looks sort of like it, but a different color.

So, getting back to your example level.

It cannot be a dodger level, because that's only 25%, by your own accounting, though percentages are actually irrelevant, and cannot be determined among each level. "Puzzle" covers a greater OVERALL focus for each individual section, And there would be plenty of "puzzle" there without the dodger section. You need to know what to do in the first what to do in the last section, and you need to know that the ball section must be completed before you can get to end section. All three sections require thought and deduction (and you need the knowledge of Freedom's "squeeze" level ) So the zapper's are not needed to create the puzzle aspect at all.

Now, tell me how you can objectively determine the difficulty of a level.
I want you to explain to me HOW you "know" what the difficulty of a level is.

 

There really isn't any such thing as "multiple focus" but if it is difficult for someone to determine what a level actually is, because it may be something new, it would be tossed into OTHER where someone else would review it, or maybe we all would, and probably discuss it (argue?) We may even make a category for if we think it could be an idea that could catch on.

Percentage isn't really relevant. That's pretty much "overthinking" the situation.

In one of my posts I suggested that uploaders give us their idea of the focus or category. That way, a top level category can be more of a sorted catch all, while we determine the finer points of the subcategory it needs to move to. At least the level will initially be somewhere logical.

I think it has been suggested that focus shouldn't be required for uploading, but if you don't choose something. It will be thrown into OTHER for checking by us.

Creators choosing their own difficulty has also been suggested

How do you determine size? ( this would be a tag, not a subcategory )
Number of blocks?
#X# grid?
Ranges of grid sizes?
I'm sure you are aware that size Is not an indicator of difficulty

Tentative major categories are on the first page of this thread. They do need some revision and additions and better description. There is a post of links to similar puzzle classification systems dating back to 1893.

Hidden keymove? I'll have to look at your levels to figure out what you're talking about, but I'm guessing they will fall under different focuses, with " Hidden elements" and "keymove" as tags . Stay tuned!

 

@LooKing? death pool, and not that way, are pure puzzle, sequential move. (Time to think, thought provoking). Tags for both, "zappers"

Grounded stairs is a dodger, subcategory needed, not yet defined, this is a new idea. Perhaps "Untimed"? tag " Hidden elements", "trial and error" "zappers"

First Glances at the others show mostly "puzzle", but I need to download them to see what is really going on inside... And I need sleep right now

Yes, "puzzle" going to be a very large category, and may need better definition ( or everything else does, so that some puzzle items go in those instead), or more subcategories to whittle it down

 

Ok. It's clear we're not going to get anywhere until the community decides whether to categorize by difficulty and have "play style" tags or to categorize by "play style" and have subcategory tags. I propose one of the mods create a poll to decide what the community wants and prompt people to read this thread before voting. After a set time, the winner in the poll should be the method we use - regardless of whoever feels the other method is better.