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Bot Paths Under the roof / Low Ceiling / Claustrophobia

Discussion in 'Game Behaviours' started by zolv, Sep 2, 2016.

  1. Sep 2, 2016 #1
    zolv

    zolv New Member

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    Hello.

    I uploaded a test level
    http://mekoramaforum.com/media/albums/bugs.560/
    where I considered it as a bug or is it maybe a feature?

    It is not possible to stop B guy under any of the roofs, when they are 2 block high. B guy does not have an "eye" on top, but it happens also when it is there.
    When You move the moving roof a little bit up, then it is possible.
     
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2016
    zolv, Sep 2, 2016
    zolv, Sep 2, 2016
    #1
  3. Sep 3, 2016 #2
    Frenzies

    Frenzies Administrator Staff Member

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    It seems to be a feature. It's used a lot in the original levels. I think it's supposed to help B through doorways and whatnot. It's commonly known as the claustrophobia effect. And you can stop B under the roof by clicking in an inaccessible spot for an X. He will stop after that.
     
    Frenzies, Sep 3, 2016
    Frenzies, Sep 3, 2016
    #2
    Astral_Mage, trids, zolv and 1 other person like this.
  5. Sep 5, 2016 #3
    Sunny Sunset

    Sunny Sunset Active Member

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    B is not claustrophobic, when you consider the small and tight spaces he squeezes through, and all those tunnels… No, he's not claustrophobic.

    B is, very simply, afraid of the dark.
    (He probably sleeps with a nightlight when the app is closed)
     
    Sunny Sunset, Sep 5, 2016
    Sunny Sunset, Sep 5, 2016
    #3
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  7. Sep 14, 2016 #4
    Astral_Mage

    Astral_Mage Well-Known Member

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    If there's an entrance & exit, B would behave the said way, but if not he would stick to his spot ;)
     
    Astral_Mage, Sep 14, 2016
    Astral_Mage, Sep 14, 2016
    #4
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  9. Sep 28, 2016 #5
    nGord

    nGord Standby Administrator, Retired Moderator Staff Member

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    I just noticed the second part too: if there is no exit (at the time of the tap) then he will go only to the spot tapped.

    Question: if there are multiple possible exits (such as in @zolv 's test level), then how is the exit chosen?
     
    nGord, Sep 28, 2016
    nGord, Sep 28, 2016
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  11. Oct 1, 2016 #6
    Astral_Mage

    Astral_Mage Well-Known Member

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    This I haven't experimented much on yet :3
     
    Astral_Mage, Oct 1, 2016
    Astral_Mage, Oct 1, 2016
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  13. Oct 1, 2016 #7
    Scare Crow

    Scare Crow Active Member

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    In case of multiple possible exits...it chooses the exit based on inertia of motion...it chooses a block in the south of the tapped block....and if it is standing on the south block it always chooses the north block...however if the movement to south is blocked...B stops under the roof
     
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2016
    Scare Crow, Oct 1, 2016
    Scare Crow, Oct 1, 2016
    #7
  15. Oct 1, 2016 #8
    nGord

    nGord Standby Administrator, Retired Moderator Staff Member

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    Oh, if only it was that simple. Back to the drawing board Grasshopper...
     
    nGord, Oct 1, 2016
    nGord, Oct 1, 2016
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  17. Oct 1, 2016 #9
    Scare Crow

    Scare Crow Active Member

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    I edited my post @nGord now I guess it is correct
     
    Scare Crow, Oct 1, 2016
    Scare Crow, Oct 1, 2016
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  19. Oct 1, 2016 #10
    nGord

    nGord Standby Administrator, Retired Moderator Staff Member

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    Nope. Doesn't cover all cases.

    There are some patterns at times, but I found that changing the orientation of the design layout changes the behaviour. Obviously, obstacles under the ceiling also change things as does where one taps under the ceiling. Good luck. I'm going to bed.
     
    nGord, Oct 1, 2016
    nGord, Oct 1, 2016
    #10
  21. Oct 1, 2016 #11
    Scare Crow

    Scare Crow Active Member

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    Okkk then lemme check out all the possibilities...and good night
     
    Scare Crow, Oct 1, 2016
    Scare Crow, Oct 1, 2016
    #11
  23. Oct 1, 2016 #12
    Scare Crow

    Scare Crow Active Member

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    Now see the post guys.....I guess now I am correct.....I observed a plethora of cases and every time the pattern proved to be correct
     
    Scare Crow, Oct 1, 2016
    Scare Crow, Oct 1, 2016
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  25. Oct 1, 2016 #13
    Scare Crow

    Scare Crow Active Member

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    In case of obstracles the order of preference is S>N>W>E
     
    Scare Crow, Oct 1, 2016
    Scare Crow, Oct 1, 2016
    #13
  27. Oct 2, 2016 #14
    Scare Crow

    Scare Crow Active Member

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    And yes one more thing.... B is not claustrophobic if the height of the roof is made 2 blocks after the autopilot begins
     
    Scare Crow, Oct 2, 2016
    Scare Crow, Oct 2, 2016
    #14
  29. Oct 28, 2016 #15
    explorer

    explorer Active Member

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    I did a few levels utilizing this idea to force B to take a longer path. Choosing a destination block will have B calculate the shortest path which can have hazards, while the longer path avoids them.

    Here's three which use the idea.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Eventually I decided that players are unlikely to remember the claustrophobia behavior, and will likely just abandon a level that doesn't feature more obvious visual mechanisms which indicate a puzzle. More videogame visuals hold attention better than logic.
     
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2016
    explorer, Oct 28, 2016
    explorer, Oct 28, 2016
    #15
    BangTe and Scare Crow like this.
  31. Oct 29, 2016 #16
    cpw

    cpw Retired Moderator

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    @explorer I agree that players do tend to enjoy more obvious level designs -- there's apparently a preference among us for straightforward (fun) levels (which can usually get 6~10 ratings) over convoluted (frustrating) levels (which seldom get more than 5). But never underestimate our community! @retrograde has been making many popular, yet really cryptic levels (check out his Witch House , which utilizes the same behavior :D). So don't worry if a design is too tricky -- just share it and let the players decide :rolleyes:
     
    cpw, Oct 29, 2016
    cpw, Oct 29, 2016
    #16
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