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Poll Is flooding an issue?

Discussion in 'General (Issues, Help, Discussions)' started by nGord, Jul 5, 2020.

How should we deal with members who post many levels at once?

  1. Flooding hurts the uploader the most and we should leave them and this issue alone (keep status quo)

  2. Flooding is an inconvenience and we should limit uploads to 10 per day

  3. Flooding is an inconvenience, but the limit should be only 5 uploads per day

  4. Flooding is a problem and so the limit should be 3 uploads per day

  5. Any more than one upload per 24 hours should be deleted ASAP

  6. There are pros and cons, so let's just increase the number of levels shown per page from 12 to 15

  7. Well, given how many levels there are now, let's just make it 18 levels per page and call it a day

  8. Let's just comment on all new member uploads to warn them about flooding and hope that works

Results are only viewable after voting.
  1. nGord

    nGord Standby Administrator, Retired Moderator Staff Member

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    Please vote above if you have an opinion on flooding in the Levels section. Flooding is the uploading of several levels at once that makes it harder for people to play, rate, and comment so many new levels and may make it harder to see levels from other creators on the front/first page.

    Previous poll regarding flooding was taken here: https://mekoramaforum.com/threads/maximum-uploads-per-day.198/
    Note that this was when we showed 9 levels per page. This number is now 12.

    Comments below are most welcome! Especially if you voted to limit the number of uploads per day, please tell us how you believe that we should enforce that. Remember that a Moderator would have to take these measures. There is no way to use technology (the forum software) to stop people from uploading. Please consider aspects like:
    - how quickly should excessive uploads be deleted before being simply left up;
    - if a level has already be played/rated/commented should we still delete it;
    - rather than deleting levels, should a Moderator leave a comment to slow down the uploads;
    - if so, what points should this comment include and should it be posted on the first/second/third/etc. upload?
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2020
    Bob Marley, Blue Tower and mothproof like this.
  2. mothproof

    mothproof Well-Known Member

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    I remember flooding the forum the first time I set foot here. Lol. I had a bunch of levels all waiting to be published, and I didn't always have Internet back then, so I uploaded in bulk when I got online. I'd like to think all those who upload too many levels at a time were well-intentioned too. Haha.

    Maybe we can have pinned post in bold letters done tastefully that warns people not to upload too many levels consecutively. Also, you say the forum software doesn't have that same function that asks you to wait a set number of seconds before posting another comment, which can be done to levels too, (in this case, hours)?

    As for deleting the spammy levels, I'd be sad for those peeps because I'm sure they were excited to publish their work. But if the platform could possibly auto-email them informing that their level has been deleted because of flooding, and to just upload again at a later time, that'd be a win-win. My two cents. :)
     
    nGord likes this.
  3. nGord

    nGord Standby Administrator, Retired Moderator Staff Member

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    In four years we haven't had one yet who wasn't. :)

    Most people don't read what system messages have been posted already. :unsure:

    Nope. :(

    This can't be done automatically nor can users be communicated with via email, but a Moderator could delete the level(s) and have a canned PM sent explaining what happened.

    [It would be up to the member to then log in again and actually see and read the PM (or have their settings set so as to receive PMs by email). I do this with cards that are not labelled. Sometimes the member never returns and the card remains deleted unless I remember to move it to the Abandoned Levels category.]

    But leaving it up to a Moderator introduces new problems such as after how many levels do we start deleting them? How much time could transpire before it would be rude to both the uploader and players that have downloaded the card to then see it disappear? What should we do with any comments or ratings that may have been posted already? What if the uploader doesn't come back, what then?
     
    mothproof likes this.
  4. mothproof

    mothproof Well-Known Member

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    How about reordering/spacing the levels, so they aren't side by side together? But that would entail manual work as well, and screw the chronological order of all the other levels. :(
     
  5. D.S.Masters

    D.S.Masters Sir Not-Appearing-In-This-Film

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    I know I've skipped levels from players when they upload more than just 2 or 3 at once - yeah, maybe the levels are good, maybe they aren't, but it's annoying when you log into Meko land and the levels page is mainly levels from one builder. As far as enforcement, there's probably no way the forum software will warn Mods about too many levels uploaded at once, so you folks will just have to wait from complaints from other users about flooding (gee, why don't I want your job? ;)).

    And yeah, very few people read the system notices, so I'm not sure how to get the word out to everybody. I'm with @mothproof in saying that the new folks who flood just want to get their levels out there and don't realize that what they're doing can be annoying. Maybe just let everybody know (somehow) to politely let a builder know when they're flooding (sounds like a personal problem, actually)...

    As far as deleting a level that has been rated and commented... no, not a good idea - that might make the builder less likely to upload future levels, even if it's explained to them why it's being done.

    Is there some way to ensure that somebody reads and acknowledges the forum rules when they join this madhouse?
     
    trids, mothproof and nGord like this.
  6. BangTe

    BangTe Famous Member

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    Without Flooding, I think there is still a level that is overlooked and that's a natural thing. but "one card for 24 Hours" is better
     
    mothproof and nGord like this.
  7. mothproof

    mothproof Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, the one card per day makes sense in discouraging flooding. At the same time, it also encourages all of us, not just the new members, to focus on quality not quantity.

    @D.S.Masters, I thought it was only me. There's something about flooding that stops me from clicking an author's work. I can say that cos I've been scouring past levels circa 2016, and I immediately auto-skip consecutive posts from the same author. I know I might miss something really good, so it's my loss. So I read the comments as well.
     
  8. PCR

    PCR Member

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    It doesn't matter because it may have had the opportunity that day to visit here and post all the other maps he had here that he wasn't sure would come back here later
     
  9. trids

    trids Famous Member

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    I understand the frustration, but I would caution against overreacting to something that is usually (if not always) done innocently and without ill-intent. Also, i think it's important to note that not everybody is offended by flooding .. so maybe those who are could find relief in the various tools that the site offers in the form of filtering, search, news feeds, recent activity, selective following, etc. Also, polite reminders by open feedback to individuals (or personal message) seem to have worked well so far.

    Even so, a stitch in time saves nine, right? And if flooding offences are unintentional, then maybe some preventative measures would yield results.

    For example..
    • I'm not in favour of restricting posts to "n levels per period", and deleting levels deemed as flooding is grossly subjective overkill. But is it possible to include an alert/reminder to a potential flooder, at some key point in the process of posting new levels? Ideally, triggered only when the user exceeds some sort of threshold, and not for every single poster every single time he posts?
    • Perhaps in the process of joining the forum, there could be a brief description of the problem and how new members can avoid embarrassment. This should not be embedded within any glossed-over welcome pack that few people read, but maybe a distinct step/page in the process of signing up.
    • I doubt that a yellow notice would be sufficient by itself (and they don't always appear, depending on how you log in/out), nor indeed any single measure. But reminders at strategic places should get the message across. Of course, if these reminders become a nuisance, then the effort becomes counter-productive! Remember, not everyone is offended by flooding. And not everyone is prone to flooding.
     
    mothproof and nGord like this.
  10. PCR

    PCR Member

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    "How should we deal with members who post many levels at once?"

    I'm sorry that my previous comments only responded to this question and not to another matter that requires a lengthy explanation.

    Question: If "flooding levels" an issue, could Admin limit if there was an account that would post a map today, such as a system could only limit 3 maps per day to that account, could it not?
     
  11. Gepeto

    Gepeto MekoStudio Architect Staff Member

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    To my point of view, nobody has to upload a lot of levels in one time.

    2 cases :
    - All of those levels are stored locally for a long period of time --> then it's just a matter of organisation...
    - Those levels have been made so quickly that they are not really interesting.

    If someone has so many levels to post then he should think about fooding the forum slowly so that they will catch attention one by one. Be seeing too many the result could be that none of them are really noticed just because they don't grab attention to each one of them but the fact that they are too many, so to test it we have to scan them, play them... Phew... Don't have time for that, so next time, which means NEVER... :rolleyes:
     
  12. PCR

    PCR Member

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    Very disappointed if I receive a response from Admins just like that

    First: do not answer with certainty the question is, whether 'flooding level' is an issue or not

    Second: turn to their internal problems why it happened or because of uploader issues, that's another problem, like this if you can't distinguish it it's disappointing
     
  13. nGord

    nGord Standby Administrator, Retired Moderator Staff Member

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    I have created a new measure that I'm testing at the moment. I created a new role and assigned anyone that had already posted a level to it. Anyone with this role can continue posting levels (and hopefully they know not to flood).

    Anyone without this role will have their uploads go through an approval process. The process doesn't work very well as you can't actually see the image/card being uploaded when making the decision whether to approve the upload, but it can at least slow down any new members. First time uploads will have to wait for a Moderator. Mods will have to approve the upload and then check (after the fact) that the card was fully labeled. If more than one upload was attempted, the other cards can be deleted (before being approved/posted) and a PM sent to the member explaining why.

    I'll also draft a warning PM that can be sent to anyone (already with the role allowing them to bypass moderation) who posts a second level in 24 hours. Two issues with this though: 1. A Moderator may not see and send this PM quickly enough, and 2. The member may not see/read the PM before posting a third or more levels.

    In the meantime, we will have to count on the community to alert multi-level posters (like @EL797 did here). A link back to this poll/thread could also prove useful.
     
    mothproof and EL797 like this.
  14. BlueDragon

    BlueDragon Well-Known Member

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    These rules are not clearly visible to the public and thus the resulting measures are invalid, as the public rules are still different. As long as these PDF's are not updated, these new rules cannot be insisted on. Just for information, before you scare and scare away new members. A 24h rule in this form is also a matter of interpretation, since the forum "one upload per day" bypasses the rule, which in turn allows a different interpretation. This is generally for information only. Since a moderator or admin no longer seems to take care of the forum consistently, all the rules that have been created are wasted anyway, because the members who feel called to struggle to comply with the rules do so with blunt weapons, as they do not have extended rights. This should be remedied in clearly formulated rules placed in a prominent position.
     
  15. Valentin

    Valentin Well-Known Member

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    I totally agree with @BlueDragon
    I would add that the rules are not easy to find when one is looking at them. And the pdf "Welcome to Mekorama" mentions a 6 per day limit.
    Today, a member posted 3 levels that clearly had an internal consistency. He had to delete his level regarding to "the rule" ( please can you tell me where it is ? the one per day I mean) although it would have been nice to find these 3 levels next to each other.
    Is it possible to rely on the members' responsibility ? and only warn those who flood by ignorance, on their first time ?
     
    Last edited: May 4, 2021
    Mekob_123 likes this.
  16. Mekob_123

    Mekob_123 Well-Known Member

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    Right - because this pdf was created in 2016 from my knowledge and there are really old rules.
     
  17. cimarronline

    cimarronline Administrator Staff Member

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    The "Welcome to Mekorama Forum" pdf has been updated, and the one level per day practice is clearly stated in both of the welcome posts, Welcome! (in ten languages) and Everything you want to know about Mekorama. These are linked in the yellow system notice at the top of the home page, and sent by message to members when they register.

    Also, levels by new members must be approved by a moderator for the first two days to make sure they post them correctly and don't flood. From what I've seen lately, flooding is no longer an issue.
     
    Last edited: Aug 18, 2021
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