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Ignoring tricks?

Discussion in 'General' started by D.S.Masters, Sep 2, 2017.

  1. D.S.Masters

    D.S.Masters Well-Known Member

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    Probably this is the wrong place to post this - I never seem to know exactly where to post something, but what ever.

    The question is: if you know that there is a trick / exploit in a level, possibly unintended, do you use it?

    For example: "Square One" by @vince - for your first move, you run through the 'house' and on to the pillar, and the exit moves. You can actually ToA to the exit exactly where it is, without going through the rest of the level... I did that once just to see if it could be done (and it can, and I've gotten pretty good with ToA). But when I replay the level (it's one of the ones I have saved), I don't use that trick, I play it as it should be done.

    Obviously, we've seen a lot of unintended tricks, as @Don G Rowe pointed out in his recent "Dzine" levels... but if you do see a trick in a level, especially a level you keep and play again, do you use it? I try not to, but sometimes frustration almost seems to lead you to it - for example, "Switcho chango" by @sawdust... the mechanism for switching B for R (darned if I know how that works) can be a little touchy, so if I try it a couple of times and the change doesn't happen, I'll just get frustrated and do an autopilot with B as he knocks the second ball in. Usually I'll try to do a level the proper way, but... if there is a shortcut or trick in a level that wasn't intended, do you do the level the proper way or do you use the trick?
     
  2. Don G Rowe

    Don G Rowe Well-Known Member Ambassador

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    I will always look for and use an obvious or naturally designed path first to complete a level. Now, in doing that I've discovered my fair share of "alternate solutions" to some levels. But others will usually discover those as well. @ridgerunner has built quite a reputation for this.

    Now here's a funny story. A while back, I played a @gmacpro level that had a Side Stair Step in it. Had to watch the video to solve it, and commented that I'd be borrowing that trick in future levels of my own. He replied in disbelief that I didn't know that trick because a much earlier level of mine, "Massive Path" had used it extensively. So I looked back at it, and sure enough, there were SSS opportunities all over it. But I designed the level originally to be solved using only conventional springboard stair! :eek:
     
    gmacpro likes this.
  3. cpw

    cpw Moderator Staff Member

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    To me I take several factors into consideration:

    1. Whether the exploit was discovered at the time an old level was uploaded
    So using the same example of Square One, ToA shouldn't be used as it was not discovered until @vince released Square One II. But I'll also have to agree that for newer members who may not know the history behind each exploit, they might just go ahead and use them to break older levels.

    2. The creator's own stance on the usage of tricks
    Some of our top creators such as @sawdust are known for making pure logic puzzles, and (IMHO) should not be responsible for any shortcuts caused by exploits. A well-educated player should instead focus on the logical theme of the level, the correct order of steps, and fitting the pieces together / reconfiguring their patterns to arrive at a logical solution, rather than intentionally trying to break the logic structure of these levels.

    3. The creator's personal style / preference for specific tricks
    This one would be a bit complicated as it requires the player to actually understand each creator's preferences by playing a considerably large amount of their levels. For instance I think it'd be quite accurate to describe @Star Penguin 's style as mostly logic puzzles using sequential ball switches and R bot herding, and most of the time (with a handful of exceptions) you can be pretty sure that B only arrives at somewhere (that he can't reach alone by walking) by riding an R bot, rather than using tricks. In comparison creators like @retrograde usually make levels only after discovering a new trick, while @richardfu 's levels generally do not deploy any counterintuitive tricks (except for his Mini Towers, of course :smirk: ).

    Our creators also have different views regarding particular tricks such as springboard stairs -- It is commonly seen in levels from (for example) @Don G Rowe , @gmacpro and @PvB but seldom in @vince and @meko 's. Similar divided views can be seen among our creators regarding inertia tricks such as ToA and Boogie Bot -- they are only regularly used by a handful of creators in their level designs, and other creators usually avoid these tricks entirely. More generally speaking I usually play each creator's levels with their individual styles in mind, and would somewhat have an understanding of what kind of steps to be expected from each of them, as well as how they tend to design the paths / terrains.

    That being said, I do think finding alternative solutions add more fun to the game (and I'm sure @Block builder will agree with this). :rolleyes:
     
  4. vince

    vince Well-Known Member

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    I guess every puzzle comes with implicit rules to follow. I'll take the Rubik's cube example again :D: the the most obvious rule is "don't break it to solve it", even if it's physically possible to break it and put each square at the right place. Nobody will consider that you've solved the Rubik's cube by doing that... For Mekorama, I would consider that I've solved a level if I don't use any unintended tricks.
    But when I design a level, I try to fix every shortcut of any kind, so that as many players as possible will find the intended solution.
     
    richardfu_, cpw and Don G Rowe like this.
  5. geniorobin

    geniorobin Member

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    Well, as a designer (not very good), I try a level does not have those shortcut, it is designed thinking of following logical steps, not in "breaking" the level.

    Sure, you can design a level that uses a specific trick, but it's almost always obvious to use it.

    But, being in a community like this, you can ask someone to "test" the level you design, this way these shortcut are detected and the level is polished and ready to play.
     
    cpw likes this.

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