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Let's Discuss How do players make such complicated yet interesting levels

Discussion in 'Level Creation Help' started by ADM, Jan 2, 2018.

  1. ADM

    ADM Well-Known Member

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    I have seen many levels from players like @gmacpro and @Don G Rowe and many more which are way too complicated and are out of my understanding. They have so many things in them that I think are really hard to make just by placing blocks by blocks. I just wanted to know how do u guys make it and that too so fast.
     
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  2. Don G Rowe

    Don G Rowe Well-Known Member

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    I'm nowhere near as sophisticated in my designs as @gmacpro. He's got this crazy ability to fit 3 or 4 steps into spaces where I can only make 1 or 2 at most. That being said, most of the stuff we use comes from the Tutorials page: https://mekoramaforum.com/media/categories/tutorials.2/
    I also research the Game Behaviours forum here: https://mekoramaforum.com/forums/behaviours/
    And when all else fails, I just put together interesting moves I've seen in other people's levels. ;) I welcome and encourage you to do the same.
     
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  3. gmacpro

    gmacpro Well-Known Member

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    Making levels comes easy but each level must (IMO) have an idea or substance behind it. For example, I can throw a bunch of blocks down and make a path but if there isn't a point to the level then it has no meaning to me. @Don G Rowe says mine are more sophisticated than his but his have (generally speaking) a well develop and eye pleasing design to them. I've started to attempt this but as @Don G Rowe already indicated, having good design means a much larger level or wasted blocks. I have a level coming out shortly, where I'm going to post the level with design and I'm also going to post the prototype (the baseline of the level - how I created it). You'll see the level became much larger than the original so design comes at a cost.

    I've mentioned this before on how I make levels. As I think of an idea, I create that one move which isn't a level. I repeat this and I may have 5 to 10 moves. Incorporating them together can be tricky as you want them to look cohesive and not separate. I do like making levels that reuse paths as it makes for a challenging creation plus good game play.

    @ADM - you mentioned "so fast". Previously, I was creating levels and after the testing period of about a week, I'd post one level. So one level a week but I had over 10 levels waiting to be posted. So now I'm uploading 1 every 2 days to get them out there but since I started posting them, I've created 6 more so the cycle never ends. I'll not be making any more levels until I get back from our Mexico vacation coming soon.

    Hopefully that gives you some insight.

    Cheers

    Gordon
     
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  4. ADM

    ADM Well-Known Member

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    Thank u @gmacpro and @Don G Rowe for your worthy tips. I will definitely try to implement them as soon as possible....:)
     
  5. Don G Rowe

    Don G Rowe Well-Known Member

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    I completely agree with @gmacpro that having even the most basic plan/idea of what you want to accomplish is critical to good level making. It doesn't have to be specific, it might be something like:

    "I want to make a level where B has to knock down three balls in a specific order to reach the win." You'd be surprised how many options you have to consider and account for just to turn this seemingly simple statement into a working level.
     
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  6. ADM

    ADM Well-Known Member

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  7. Jim

    Jim Member

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    Good question. I have found that i receive more accolades when my level has game play, is eye pleasing, and is either in honor of a "noun" or makes political humor. Fun game huh!
     
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  8. laurence.gr

    laurence.gr Well-Known Member

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    Really nice thread. May I join?
    I liked gmac's and Don's approach. I'm sometimes tempted to imitate their styles and figure out a formula, but I found out you can't teach how to make a good level. It always comes from experience and constructive feedback from other authors and players.
    Yeah, sometimes I played a level too hard that the steps sink into my subconscious that I was able to "copy" those moves/steps unconsciously.
    True. As a beginner, there's no other way to learn that this is true than playing/making levels.
     
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  9. ADM

    ADM Well-Known Member

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    Thanks @Jim and @laurence.gr for sharing ur views about this topic.

    I totally agree with what Jim said. Unless ur level is good looking it doesn't get much attention but this I think is applicable only for New members or just members because experienced players' levels are always played even if they don't look good because people know that it will have something which is worth trying. That's the reason why I try to make good looking level but also with a good gameplay.

    I also agree with u Laurence. As a beginner I was also tempted to copy levels but my conscious did not allow me to do so. I have often seen that new members make levels that i would not make even im my dreams. What I think is that New players should try to play more levels than making them. By doing this they would be more familiar with the game's mechanics and would get better ideas in their mind.

    And thanks again for sharing ur views:)
     
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  10. Jim

    Jim Member

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    I like to learn what an individual piece can do when applied to a number of different contacts. Too bad i waited till just recently to look deeper at the sliders rail/ no rail and boundary relationship.
     
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  11. ADM

    ADM Well-Known Member

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    Hahaha.. at least u came to know it, that's enough. But u gave a very good point that players can implement, that is, connecting different game mechanics with each other because this can be very useful for making better levels
     
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  12. gmacpro

    gmacpro Well-Known Member

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    @ADM and @Don G Rowe – I've posted the level that I mentioned above. The prototype is in the comments and you'll see a significant difference between the two.
     
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  13. ADM

    ADM Well-Known Member

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    @gmacpro
    Yes I just saw ur level "no swimming". The difference between the prototype and the original level looks really too much. But I had a question in my mind "What's the need for sharing the protype because afterall players have to solve the original one" Is it to help players understand the original one better?
     
  14. gmacpro

    gmacpro Well-Known Member

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    The prototype could have two purposes as the game play would be the same between the 2. The intention was to show how nicer design increases the size of a level and therefore making the level much larger than it could be. If a player wants to play the prototype, go ahead as it's easier IMO.
     
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  15. ADM

    ADM Well-Known Member

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  16. Bammeras

    Bammeras New Member

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    Get some skills for us , thanks :thumbsup:
     

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