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Mekorama 2.0 Fix metal passing through metal bug

Discussion in 'Mekorama 2.0' started by MekoMole, Sep 14, 2021.

  1. MekoMole

    MekoMole Active Member

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    I know some may not regard this as a bug but I find it increasingly irritating and a severe limitation on fhings I wish to do. In an all metal assembly metal should come to rest against a metal stop. Anything other is contrary to the laws of engineering and physics.
     
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  2. Chris Hester

    Chris Hester Active Member

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    I notice many overlapping elements in the game such as bot arms going into slopes. I think to make the game perfect would require more code that might slow it down too much.

    I would love to see a screenshot or demo of what you refer to.
     
  3. MekoMole

    MekoMole Active Member

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    There is debate within the Mekorama community over what constitutes a designed in 'feature', playable bug or bug pure and simple. A bug in my book is an anomaly that prevents proper operation of the game. Metal passing through metal is just that.
    [​IMG]
    My card shows a mechanism designed to allow a rotating arm to travel a limited arc. I wish this to work on a travelling mechanism but metal through metal prevents this working.
    All three mechanisms are identical with the exception of a slider added to the top two. Granite blocks have been placed to control whether the mechanism can travel in a straight line.
    First thing to note is that the addition of the slider reverses direction of rotation. I don't have an issue with that.
    Note that the bottom mechanism, without a slider, performs as desired. The rotating arm comes to rest on the metal stop block. However it can't obviously move in a straight direction as required.
    The middle mechanism, with slider, moves in a straight line until stopped by the fixed granite stop, but note that the metal stop does not prevent the metal arm from rotating. This is metal through metal.
    The third, top, mechanism, with slider, can't move in a straight line because of the position of the granite block but metal through metal still occurs. This to me illustrates that metal to metal syndrome is as a direct result of giving the mechanism the Ability to move and is not as a result of Motion itself.
    Solid metal does not pass through solid metal except in case of catastrophic failure. This is a bug in Mekorama which should be fixed.
    As a footnote Martin Magni has a walking robot design where metal passes through metal.
     
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  4. Chris Hester

    Chris Hester Active Member

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    Interesting, thanks. You're quite right, it's clearly a bug. I have noticed other bugs like stars that disappear into walls. See a demo I made below. In my latest level a slider is able to pass over a star and not 'take' it. But add a block ontop and the star is taken. There are many other combinations of blocks that affect sliders - some stop them moving altogether. The same goes for the rotating motors - I had one that stopped rotating for no apparent reason. I just added a rounded block on top of a square block connected to the motor via a long arm, like in your demo. But other combinations of round blocks on top didn't cause it to stop rotating. I didn't solve that one and removed all the motors in the end.

    Screenshot_2022-04-07-21-24-32-633.jpg
     
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  5. MekoMole

    MekoMole Active Member

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    For definitive data on stars see extensive research by @Labyrenight.
    I find research by others into the many eccentricities of Mekorama interesting but I prefer to try to stick to a no tricks regime. Also it has got to the stage that I can't get my brain round much of it. That said I admire the ingenuity of the many designers exploring the innards of the game.
     
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  6. AreaRankDragon

    AreaRankDragon Well-Known Member

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    Oh back to metal through metal again. This is a bug within the mekorama engine which could potentially be due to the engine turning the collision between parts defined as movable and connected to eachother during the start of the level (probably not this one) , or maybe it just doesn't calculate the collision between them at all (more likely) due to them causing problems when calculated (since they have a high chance of messing up gameplay and causing crashes on low end devices), there can be a lot of other reasons too based on how the engine was designed in the first place, but these two r my best guesses rn; but there will be two issues with fixing this thing in the first place:

    1) uhh changing anything in the code could break other things cuz programming likes being a pain.
    2) there r a lot of levels made based on this bug, fixing it can cause a lot of levels to not function in the way they should and make a lot of them impossible to beat

    I personally don't like bugs but sometimes they have to stay, fixing them could sometimes cause more damage than letting them stay :(
     
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2022
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  7. MekoMole

    MekoMole Active Member

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    No disagreement with point one, been there often enough in my pre retirement career and now in hobby time. However in my book because it's hard doesn't necessarily mean it shouldn't be done.

    Don't agree with point two, in a spirit of friendly debate I hope. Bugs are rapidly becoming the dominant feature in Mekorama. If you choose to capitalise on a bug I believe you should assume and accept that your level is not future proof. I qualify that last statement by differentiating between expoitable bugs that don't affect core funcionality or normal user experience and those that do. Metal on metal falls into the latter category in my opinion.

    Thanks for contributing to the discussion.
     
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  8. Chris Hester

    Chris Hester Active Member

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    How about this for a bug: B going through stone!

    (Both shots taken from my 'Ball Fall' level when B falls in the water and gets zapped.)

    IMG_20220425_212810.jpg

    IMG_20220425_212754.jpg
     
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2022
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  9. Adiorama

    Adiorama Well-Known Member

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    I agree :)
     
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  10. Adiorama

    Adiorama Well-Known Member

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    That's weird :D:rotf:
     
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  11. Chris Hester

    Chris Hester Active Member

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    I noticed in a recent level that B can appear in the same space as a slider. So I made a demo to test it out:

    IMG_20220511_221614.jpg

    Sometimes B falls off the slider, otherwise he sits on top with his legs going through!

    Screenshot_2022-05-11-22-14-11-172.jpg
     
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  12. Adiorama

    Adiorama Well-Known Member

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    @Chris Hester I think this is happening because there is no slider rail in the slider due to which it appear to B as empty bin IMG_20220512_070952.jpg IMG_20220512_071024.jpg
     
    Last edited: May 12, 2022 at 12:30 PM
  13. AreaRankDragon

    AreaRankDragon Well-Known Member

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    Hmm I think @Adiorama is half right.
    it could also be becuz the slider's COB is a bit... short? Since we can see B's body going into the slider, the engine thinks B is standing on the ground since the slider is not a full block COB for the player to stand on, that's why when u click somewhere else afterwards B starts walking from the ground and not from the top of the slider, since the game doesn't think B is standing on the slider in the first place, the railings are what fix the COB since their COB is bigger than the slider's (railings have the COB of a full block)

    Final take: the slider's COB is shorter than expected this isn't something hard to fix if martin wants to
     
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  14. Chris Hester

    Chris Hester Active Member

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    If I turn the slider sideways B can stand on it like a solid block!

    [​IMG]
     
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  15. Chris Hester

    Chris Hester Active Member

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    I just added a slider rail and got two 'bugs'. First, B can end up hovering on one leg:

    IMG_20220512_121430.jpg

    Secondly, if he falls on the rail, the slider goes right through his legs!

    IMG_20220512_121447.jpg
     
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  16. BLR

    BLR Well-Known Member

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    The hole on the slider is actually an empty room.
     
  17. Chris Hester

    Chris Hester Active Member

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    So the slider is like the cardboard in the middle of a toilet roll?

    IMG_20220513_142540_copy_668x570.jpg

    If so then only the black hole in the middle should be hollow. The copper metal around the hole should push B off the slider rail.
     
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  18. Adiorama

    Adiorama Well-Known Member

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    Hmm.... it should have been:rolleyes:
     
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  19. BLR

    BLR Well-Known Member

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    Maybe:rolleyes: and if B trapped on the hole he can't back if the slider not move (up and down)
     
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  20. fire_rabbit

    fire_rabbit Member

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