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Fancy Tapping Tripping on Air - edge block

Discussion in 'Game Behaviours' started by D.S.Masters, Oct 24, 2016.

  1. D.S.Masters

    D.S.Masters Sir Not-Appearing-In-This-Film

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    This isn't a request for a level that uses the Tripping on Air trick - I've done those before, including the beautiful "Square one III" by @vince . What I'm asking is: does the piece you fall from have to be metal (the light brown pieces), or can it be any type of block?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 11, 2017
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  2. cpw

    cpw Retired Moderator

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    It can be any kind of block as far as I know. The reason why @vince used metal half pillars in Square One III is to make the trick easier to perform I think.
     
  3. Frenzies

    Frenzies Administrator Staff Member

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    @cpw Yep. It's much more unstable without them, though.
     
  4. vince

    vince Famous Member

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    @D.S.Masters It can be any kind of block, but it is easier to fall if it is a rounded block (in metal or stone) or a stair.
     
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  5. D.S.Masters

    D.S.Masters Sir Not-Appearing-In-This-Film

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    Okay, does anyone have an example where it's not a metal block?
     
  6. nGord

    nGord Standby Administrator, Retired Moderator Staff Member

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    @ All - would the text in this spoiler be accurate and fit to publish?
    “Slipping on Pillars”

    An improvement on the Tripping on Air exploit, but with essentially the same concept is the Slipping on Pillars exploit. With pillars or half pillars, the concept is a bit easier to accomplish, and thus makes it more reliable. The concept is to place B at least three blocks from an edge that you want him to fall down over, which in this case is a rounded edge. With B far enough away, tap the final block (pillar or half pillar with the rounded edge facing away) and then just before he steps on the final block, tap it again. This will throw B off balance and his inertia will have him make a step just beyond the end of the block and he will end up falling down to the next elevation.

    “Tripping on Air”
    This trick is so insidious that is extremely discouraged and we hesitate to even mention it as it is both difficult to perform and potentially harmful to the enjoyment of many other levels. Essentially this is a falling trick that can be done in a small space with three cube blocks. Place B at one end and tap the other end to send him there, but just before he steps on the destination block, tap it one more time. This will throw B off balance and his inertia will have him make a step just beyond the end of the block and he will end up falling down to the next elevation.

    Square one II, @vince, 21 September 2016
     
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  7. D.S.Masters

    D.S.Masters Sir Not-Appearing-In-This-Film

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    Well, I wouldn't say *discouraged*... it's part of the game, yet another 'feature'. I'm not fond of tricks / features, though I have learned a few, and the falling trick is easy enough. Aside from that, I think it needs to be explained a little more completely.
     
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  8. nGord

    nGord Standby Administrator, Retired Moderator Staff Member

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    @D.S.Masters

    1. Wouldn't it be fair that in the light of now being able to use rounded edges (in Slipping in Pillars) that we can safely say that Tripping on Air is discouraged?

    We have many other falling tricks too (see @retrograde's wonderful demos). I don't think we need to promote one that can be so simply used practically anywhere and thus potentially ruin some hard to solve levels. The same happened with other inertia based exploits like Boogie Bot Bug that allowed players to cause B to fall from heights that would have otherwise required more puzzle solving. When I employed Boogie Bot Bug in my level (Praying for Rain) I was roundly chastised despite feeling as if any other falling trick would jeopardize the effect that I was aiming for.

    For anyone looking for a reference, here is a description of Boogie Bot But from upcoming documentation:
    “Boogie Bot Bug” (the first “Inertia Bug”)

    If you move B back and forth, especially around the corner of a hole or set of blocks, he will get dizzy. If you get him dizzy enough, his weight will be enough to make him fall (either up onto or down from a block).
    Another complaint - and an even more fervent one - I have of Tripping on Air is that it is not at all obvious on its own in a level that that is what could be intended. For example in Square One II, I had absolutely no idea what to do and had to go look through spoilers to get past that point. In fact there was not even a hint supplied, just a straight explanation due to its difficulty to be recognized. In my opinion, the Tripping on Air trick is not intuitive to see and not intuitive to perform.

    But I strongly welcome a further discussion on this too!

    2. When you say "it needs to be explained more completely," could I ask you to be more specific please? I would be happy to update the text so that everyone could immediately understand.

    Thanks!
     
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2016
  9. cpw

    cpw Retired Moderator

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    I agree with @nGord regarding the Tripping on Air trick ruining many levels (although it is totally up to the player's preference whether he wants to solve it without having fully experienced the level). Most other tricks require specifically designed block combinations (e.g. Jump button) / careful path planning (e.g. Climbing trick) to work properly, and they usually would not be usable unless the designer made it happen. The falling trick as well as boogie bot, however, do not really require any specific design elements and it's why they can ruin a level so easily.
     
  10. trids

    trids Famous Member

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    Ok, but @meko's brilliant mini pagoda features an excellent example of something that might be called "tripping on air", although it doesn't fit any of the definitions above: there's no need for any deprecated double tap, and there are no cylinders involved. You simply start B on the red brick and send him to the steps - he jumps off all by himself.
    :p

    So what would this be called?
    o_O
     
  11. trids

    trids Famous Member

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    Wait - my bad! :eek:

    There is indeed a cylinder in the path. Ignore everything i said.. :oops:.. I guess this would fall under "slippery pillars" then?
     
  12. Frenzies

    Frenzies Administrator Staff Member

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    @nGord Looks great.

    I agree that it should be discouraged. I don't find it that easy to do, as it takes a lot of tries and is unstable, and as others have said, it's not obvious if you're supposed to used this. It's much like the Inertia / Boogie Bot bug, and I also hate that one.

    @trids I don't think it should be called the same name, as it could cause confusion, but it also fits. I guess we'll have to make another name and decide which name to use for which.
     
  13. nGord

    nGord Standby Administrator, Retired Moderator Staff Member

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    I would say no, we should not call "this" (the Mini Pagoda drop) the same as Slipping on Pillars as it is a completely different effect. B does not slip on a rounded edge. Instead B slips on a stair block.

    In @meko's discovery and elegant implementation, the falling effect happens naturally and does not depend on any crafty screen tapping or inertia of B. The red block is not relevant, only merely a suggestive block to the player, and a nice touch I might add. The trick is also much more predictable, intuitive, and simpler to execute than Slipping on Pillars. Perhaps @meko would like to dedicate a name for it?
     
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2016
  14. meko

    meko Italian Moderator

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    I suggest:
    "Stumble on pillar" trick,
    "Stumbled pillar" trick,
    "Spiteful pillar:D" trick or
    "Stumble" trick.
     
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  15. vince

    vince Famous Member

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    @nGord Good explanation of tricks. I would add that the double tap trick also works well with stairs instead of pillar. Another little thing: These tricks works better if B is exactly on the third block from the hole, facing the hole. It can be done from the second or the fourth block but it is much more difficult.
     
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2016
  16. Astral_Mage

    Astral_Mage Well-Known Member

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    I think techniques such as these along with exploits should be documented separately, as a sort of an advanced course.

    May I quote @trids:
    That^ I think should be the header of the suggested document(changing the word "model"ofcourse).
     
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  17. nGord

    nGord Standby Administrator, Retired Moderator Staff Member

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    Thanks guys. Unfortunately, it's 04:47 in the morning here for me, so I'll have to address this in full tomorrow.

    For now I wanted to say to @meko that the game official name for cylinders are pillars, so we should probably go with something like: "Intoxicating Pillar" or something...

    @vince - thanks for the compliment and feedback. @Frenzies was also discussing this with me and suggesting that your trick is more about the fancy finger tapping and not so much about what block is in question. You raise a good point that stair blocks, or likely any block, would work (especially since cube blocks work). Would you suggest that we lump the two definitions above back together under just the one title: "Tripping on Air?" I would do the appropriate edits and include a comment along the lines that cube blocks are discouraged and although any block would work, rounded edge blocks like pillars and half pillars would be most appropriate to use, not only for aesthetic purposes, but for increased stability of the trick.

    @Astral_Mage - Yes, that is the plan. ;)
     
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  18. vince

    vince Famous Member

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    @nGord Now that you mention it, It may be more clear if there was only one definition of the tripping on air trick, with comments as you said.
    About the stairs, I was saying that it was working as well as pillars (and better than cube block of course).
    Thanks for your work.
     
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